Archived Discussion Topic

Permanent Resident Definiation       started by JimLori on 18 Feb 2007   (11732)
Message InfoMessage
From JimLori

18 Feb 2007 5:35 PM
(53073)
Does anyone know the definiation for the above in relation to the Family Test?
From jimboman

To JimLori

18 Feb 2007 5:47 PM
(53075)
A permanent resident is someone who holds a visa for permanent residency in Australia. Other visas that allow temporary residency (457s and work or study permits) do not count as permanent residency visas and so do not count in the balance of family test. If you are in Australia on a 457, for the balance of family test, you are counted as being outside of Australia. A permanent resident has no time limit on their visa and can only be ejected from Australia if they commit a major crime or are considered to be undesirable in some other way. The ejection order has to be made by a court.
From JimLori

To jimboman

18 Feb 2007 5:56 PM
(53077)
Thanks, Do you know if a skilled independant visa BN Class 136 is a visa which has permanent residency rights? Regards Jim
From jimboman

To JimLori

18 Feb 2007 6:00 PM
(53078)
Yes, a 136 is a PR visa. That is the one we have applied for and are waiting for an answer. (maybe this week, please). You become a permanent resident as soon as you pass through immigration in Australia. After 2 years, you can apply for full citizenship which basically means that if you murder someone, you can't be thrown out at the end of your sentence.
From JimLori

To jimboman

18 Feb 2007 6:03 PM
(53079)
Lets hope its not to long to wait. I think if I had murdered someone I think I would prefer to return to UK. I've seen the old Freemantle prison you wouldnt want to stay there!! Nice cosy cell in UK, TV, SKY ? or might not even send you to jail, not enough space.
From JimLori

To jimboman

18 Feb 2007 6:06 PM
(53080)
One final question Jim, Do you know if you have to be in living inOz after granting the Visa for the famiy test to be met ? Or can you still be living in the UK ? We want our Dad to come with us but until we have our visa he doesn't meet the test as he only has one son in Perth and at present 3 children in the UK. Regards Jim
From jimboman

To JimLori

18 Feb 2007 6:15 PM
(53083)
I don't know to be honest. As I understand it, once you have validated your visa(by entering Australia), you are a PR. If you happen return to the UK, you are still classed as a PR (just abroad on holiday). This would mean you getting a 136, entering Australia and then returning to the UK and submitting the app for your Dad.
From JimLori

To jimboman

18 Feb 2007 6:30 PM
(53087)
Sounds common sense when you think about it. We have applied before on a skilled visa but never completed the process (Silly people) when Mum died, Dad move house 4 days after she died. Nothing else seemed importnat then,a nd we weren't thinking straight. I don't want to apply again and be told Dad doesn't qaulify on a technical issue. If he fails medicals,police etc or not accepted then that is understandable. Have you used an agent ? Where do you plan to live ?
From jimboman

To JimLori

18 Feb 2007 6:49 PM
(53090)
We are not using an agent and plan to move to WA.
From JimLori

To jimboman

18 Feb 2007 6:54 PM
(53091)
Well Good Luck and I hope it all works out OK Regards Jim
From Kath_and_Ian

To JimLori

19 Feb 2007 2:22 AM
(53133)
I think I know what you're on about, but correct me if I'm wrong. You want your Dad to go out with you at the same time? Unfortunately you need to be settled in Australia to count for the family test. I believe this is usually taken to mean you have been there for 2 years. Check the pages at DIMA to be sure, but this is my understanding of it. Look at the following link to see the definition of settled. http://www.immi.gov.au/migrants/family/103/definitions.htm
From JimLori

To Kath_and_Ian

19 Feb 2007 4:39 PM
(53233)
Will Do, Thanks
From OzBod

To JimLori

19 Feb 2007 5:09 PM
(53235)
i think for your dad to come over at a later stage will mean you will need to sponsor him for one of the parent visas but in doing so he has to have more than 50% of his children living in australia too and you will have needed to be here for two years i beleive. so if there is only you and 3 others still in the uk then unfortunately the chances of him getting into australia are slim. you will also need to supply evidence that you have settled in australia. the dimia site referred to earlier in this thread defines the word settled and it isnt necessarily what you might automatically think settled is.
From JimLori

To OzBod

19 Feb 2007 7:01 PM
(53240)
Thanks, we intend to apply first and get our visa, so he would meet the 50% rule. Its whether we can wan't in the UK until he is succesful or not and then move together. It appears that the 'Settled' defination will be the key. Regards Jim
From Gollywobbler

To JimLori

20 Feb 2007 5:31 AM
(53290)
Hi Jim Only the sponsor needs to be 'settled' in Oz. The definition of 'settled' is in Section 1.03 of the Regulations (Definitions) and is here: settled, in relation to an Australian citizen, an Australian permanent resident or an eligible New Zealand citizen, means lawfully resident in Australia for a reasonable period. 'Reasonable period' is not defined but the Tribunal has said that 18 months was enough in one case, since the lady had found a steady, full-time job, had bought a house etc: her lifestyle evinced an intention to remain in Australia indefinitely. However, The Balance of Family Test is contained in S1.05 of the Regs. As it is a page long I won't try to paste the whole thing on here. This is the relevant part of it in the contaxt of your own family: ((2) A parent satisfies the balance of family test if: (a) each of the children of the parent is either: (i) lawfully and permanently resident in Australia; or (ii) a person who is: (A) an eligible New Zealand citizen; and (B) usually resident in Australia; or (b) the number of children of the parent who are lawfully and permanently resident in Australia or are eligible New Zealand citizens usually resident in Australia is: (i) greater than, or equal to, the total number of children of the parent who are resident overseas; or (ii) greater than the greatest number of children of the parent who are resident in any single overseas country. Thus we have a situation in which the Sponsor must be lawfully & permanently resident in Oz plus must also be settled in Oz. However, it does NOT say that any of the other children have to be 'settled' in Oz. As long as the necessary additional children are in Australia lawfully, on a visa that gives them Permanent Residence, it doesn't matter if they only attained this status a week before the application is made. Additionally, it may be possible to construe it even more narrowly than I have and to run with what Jimboman says, which is that if the second child's PR visa has been validated then that person is 'Permanently & Lawfully Resident' is Oz, even if they do not happen to be in Oz at the relevant time. There is certainly one British family which is running with this theory, on a CP 143 visa, on the say-so of a solicitor in Perth, at present. The second child has validated his skilled 136 visa but has not yet 'moved' to Australia. The solicitor reckons that that does not matter, and the Parents' application was submitted some months ago now, not long after the second child validated his visa. However, to some extent I think you are making this unnecessarily complicated. If people have done their research properly, applications for CP visas do not fail mysteriously. The only thing that one cannot guard against is an event like an elderly parent suddenly suffering a stroke or something in the middle of the application process. That might cause the gamble to be lost but the chances of it happening are not particularly great if the person is generally healthy. Because of the brother in Oz, your Dad will be able to apply for a CP visa pretty well as soon as your own visas have been validated, in all probability (I will see if I can dig up anything definite but my instinct is that Jimboman may well be right.) If you are really worried about his meds you could frontload them as long as you are prepared to pay for a second set of meds at the end of the process as well. Realistically you probably wouldn't move to Oz permanently absolutely immediately anyway, and there is no reason why Dad should not go out to Perth on a long-stay tourist visa whilst his CP application wends its way through the process. My mother used a long stay tourist visa to go out to Oz 3 weeks after I submitted her CP application. She returned to the UK 5 weeks before it was granted. If we had not made a mistake in failing to frontload the Australian police checks, that extra 5 weeks would not have been needed. The CO was most anxious that we shouldn't drag Mum any further than Singapore (because the Parent must be outside Oz when the visa is granted.) However, since we weren't sure how long the Oz police would take, we decided it was easier for Mum to return to the UK. By the time the visa was granted 5 weeks later, Mum was well-rested and no longer jet-lagged. She flew back to Oz 3 weeks after her CP visa was granted, validating it on the way in. My mother is 15 years older than your Dad. I know that that doesn't prove that nothing would happen to Dad. We had no certainty that nothing would happen to Mum, though. However, I think you just have to say, 'We'll cross that bridge if and when we have to' and then put it to the back of your mind unless and until a calamity happens. The chances are that it won't happen, my friend. Cheers Gill
From JimLori

To Gollywobbler

20 Feb 2007 7:41 AM
(53298)
I wonderful reply Gill, most grateful Best Regards Jim