Archived Discussion Topic

migrants leaving australia       started by david on 26 Jan 2012   (23959)
Message InfoMessage
From david

26 Jan 2012 5:56 AM
(111803)
hi i havent posted on here for a while.. im in oz now. i've only been here about a month and a half. love the place but very expensive and red tape like i've never seen anywhere. you seem to need a licence for everything. i have to thank shaz and phil for all their help and encouragement... but anyway i read this news article and thought its worth posting because its independent from anyone on here.. http://au.news.yahoo.com/today-tonight/latest/article/-/12721871/migrants-leaving-australia/
From tisme

To david

26 Jan 2012 10:50 AM
(111804)
I found it amusing. Travel agent Lisa left the United States ten years ago, and now she's among the tens of thousands of migrants who wants to move back home.
From david

To tisme

26 Jan 2012 6:28 PM
(111805)
i found it more insightful than amusing...i find aussies friendly enough myself.. i got good neighbours etc.. infact most people are friendly... but i suppose when someone is trying to make a point about their experience of life here its easy to mock them cause its a different opinion than we have.. i took from lisas experience that even simple things like the movies can make a difference... all the small things add up... but the whole article wasnt written by lisa or about lisa... it was just about the number of migrants now returning to their native land and like it or lump it thats whats happening... i for one love it here and i hope i can get enough work to stay... it might be better wages here but u need a job to get them.. if you had no work and no wage then you would find out how expensive it really is cause your savings wouldnt last to long because of the cost of living.. so before we knock people maybe more respect should be given them for being honest enough to say i cant make it work here...
From tisme

To david

26 Jan 2012 8:06 PM
(111806)
its a total crock of shit someone has to be having a laugh. Its very bad reporting with no substance.
From david

To tisme

26 Jan 2012 9:17 PM
(111807)
oh dear..lol.. that really is amusing... so i take it that you as an individual have more substance in your individual opinion (or crock of shit as you like to put it)than the reporter who wrote the article? but if you have contacted the news team the reporter works for and they have confirmed that it was just made up cause they had nothing else to report on that day then i apologise...
From tisme

To david

27 Jan 2012 1:23 PM
(111809)
Firstly the numbers coming here dropped by 9%, 9% of what???? though it is obvious migration numbers have decreased since the GFC, house values overseas reducing and the stronger $au have contributed hugely to this. The figures he states are meaningless, percentages are a more acurate picture of those leaving. A decade ago there were 88,900 migrant arrival. 40,700 stayed thats 45.78% stayed and 54.22% left 2008-2009 158,021 arrived and 77,00 stayed as permanent residents. thats 48.72% and 42.28% left. Well I have mentioned the woman from the US, if she came from New York then well yes she could well find Australia a little light on the nightlife, especially if she moved to an outer suburb, the movie comment?? well that is just a joke. As for the argument things are more expensive here, well it's all swings and roundabouts. Now the plumber, why would anyone move half way around the world without doing any research, there is redtape here in Oz, things WILL be different from anyones homeland due the fact Australia is a DIFFERNT country with it's own way of doing thing's. $100,000 round trip??? can not for the life of me see how it would cost that much. They didint even take possession of their belongings but turned them straight around. Supposing this STORY of the plumber is in fact true. The Nurse from NZ,
From david

To tisme

27 Jan 2012 3:58 PM
(111810)
now isnt that better and more readable than just saying its 'a crock of shit'.. but out of curiousity where did you get your facts, figures and percentages?
From tisme

To david

27 Jan 2012 4:12 PM
(111811)
I assumed without adequate detail, blind freddy could have seen the article was based on nothing. The information is clear for all to see on the Governments Immigration website. and it IS A CROCK OF SH!TE
From simonc

To tisme

27 Jan 2012 5:02 PM
(111812)
Today Tonight has a bit of a rep for sensationalism rather than quality journalism.
From tisme

To simonc

27 Jan 2012 5:07 PM
(111813)
Yes your right there, something David will find out in time.
From david

To simonc

27 Jan 2012 5:43 PM
(111814)
contrary to what some may think i can assure you i aint green.. you really reckon anyone would need to sensationalise a story about people leaving australia? not exactly headline stuff... and doesn't matter what was reported or how you just couldnt sensationalise a story about migrants leaving... even a journalist wouldn't do that on such an article for fear of being laughed at within their own profession..
From simonc

To david

27 Jan 2012 7:24 PM
(111815)
No offence or suggestion of greenery intended. It is just an observation, similar to yours about noticing a lot of red tape. When there isn't too much in decent tabloid news going on - eg a footy player busted for drugs or an Aussie model hitting big time in the US. TV wheels out the same old stories to time to pad things out a bit. Other choice fillers are those advising house price rises/falls and the next 'boom' about to hit - stories of clearly sell papers. Ive seen all of them repeated several times over the last few years.
From KathrynG

To david

27 Jan 2012 8:56 PM
(111817)
I always tell people, the grass is not greener, only a different shade. I think a lot of folk, me included, come over here expecting it to be like England with beaches and sunshine (because the Queen is head of state and because they speak English) but apart from the language it is so vastly different. It takes on average three years for some to settle and to work out where they want to live and how to get the deals, benefits etc.... I have lived here 4 1/2 years and think we are much better off here than in the UK. I no longer find it expensive because I know what to look for and haggling is so much fun. Yes the government regulate a lot of the countries services but the country didn't go into recession when the rest of the world did, so perhaps they are doing some right. If you come into this country with the view that it is going to be different and you are going to have to adept (almost like you would if you went to Italy for example, you would learn the language) and do not compare dollars to pounds or visa versa, (the worse mistake to make) because it makes no odds, you are paid in dollars so work in dollars, don't work out what it would have been in pounds. Your in Australia now!
From david

To simonc

27 Jan 2012 9:45 PM
(111818)
hi simon.. no offence taken my friend.. i was just trying to say i didnt come here with my eyes wide shut or with the rose tinted glasses that so many wear and refuse to take off. im well aware of journalistic exaggeration etc. i just couldnt see a small story like that buried in among other stories needing to be made up so to speak.. on this i reckon its not to far away from the truth... just the way it is no matter who would like it not to be true... as i said, i like it here and i hope to be able to get enough work to make that possible.. i didnt bring me and my young son here just to head back... but i can understand why people would head back...
From simonc

To david

27 Jan 2012 10:17 PM
(111819)
It is a huge step and the should I stay of should I go debate has been flaring up on and off on these forums for ever, Im still on the fence after 5 years, I just wish I could make my mind up! Best of luck. Simon
From kildrummy

To simonc

28 Jan 2012 11:44 AM
(111820)
This article might be a bit sensationalist and badly researched but it is only one of many appearing in the UK press. They have even created a new TV programme about all the returning migrants. I only know this because my mother keeps us up to speed hoping we will come home soon. We came here as oil industry expats for four years and never intended staying. All the bureaucracy and expenses were dealt with by the company so it was all pretty painless and srtaight forward. Well our four years are up and we have decided to stay on for the time being. We even applied for PR. Happy settled kids and a relatively health economy being the deciding factors. There is no doubt in my mind that Perth is the most expensive place i have ever visited, but more importantly the current exchange rates mean its now very much more expensive to relocate to Australia. You might earn more money in the medium to long term but the costs of getting established are prohibitive for someone selling the average house in the UK. Always assuming you can get it sold atall. When we arrived each pound stirling bought 2.54 dollars now it gets you 1.47 dollars. In other words the $500k house that cost less than 200k pounds now costs 340k pounds. Now if a change like that does not reduce demand i do not know what will. It will in particular make it a far greater risk for families. That said if you currently live in many parts of Europe with 20% unemployment what have you got to loose especially if you are young and willing to put in some hard work. As for all the other likes, dislikes moans and groans, they can only be placed under the heading of personal preferences. I played golf with one guy who thought Perth was the most backward godforsaken outpost he had ever seen. He quickly got himself transferred to Russia. Bugger that!. I suppose it takes all sorts.
From jimboman

To kildrummy

29 Jan 2012 9:49 PM
(111823)
I don't get the more expensive cost of living argument. If you look at an average unskilled worker here (say a forklift driver), he will be earning around $50,000 a year ($25 an hour). That same worker in the UK would earn around 18000 pounds. At the current exchange rate that works out to $26,460. Taking this as a percentage, the british worker earns 52% of what the same Aussie worker earns. The loaf of bread that costs $3.00 here (or two for $5.00) actually works out at 1.30 pounds if you use the earnings related exchange rate. Converting back to pounds from dollars when the exchange rate favours dollars, will make Australia seem very expensive. Even I do that from time to time. I buy a pint of beer for $10 and think to myself WTF. Then again, I can buy 20% more pints of beer than I could buy in the UK once I take into account my earnings here compared to the UK. The bigger picture of course is that the UK economy is a trillion pounds in debt with no realistic chance of reduction for at least two years (Britain still spends more than it earns every year). Britain has little industry and most of its natural resources are exhausted. Meanwhile, the financial services sector on which Britain relies heavilly for tax receipts, has taken a hammering and has been bailed out by quantitive easing (printed money) hence the weak pound. Add to this the looming pensions black hole and the financial mess that is Europe (Britains main trading partner) and the outlook for the UK is at best bleak.
From simonc

To jimboman

03 Feb 2012 11:38 PM
(111840)
Parity with the pound is getting closer....
From Mindblower

To simonc

04 Feb 2012 4:25 PM
(111841)
Would you sell your house at parity and return cahsed up if you could ?
From jimboman

To simonc

04 Feb 2012 6:55 PM
(111844)
I reckon parity will be a thing of the past before long. The UK continues to print money (quantitive easing?) which just dilutes the value of the economy. Meanwhile UK tax receipts continue to drop and public spending rises inspite of the measures taken to reduce it. The UK and Europe are just like the cashed up bogans here who borrow huge amounts based on what they think they might earn and live good for a few years. Eventually though, you have to pay back what you borrowed. The UK owes a trillion pounds (which is a fair bit). I read in the Daily Mail last week that UK debt equals 64,000 pounds per head of population. Scary....
From simonc

To Mindblower

05 Feb 2012 12:17 PM
(111846)
Good question! Would you?
From KathrynG

To simonc

05 Feb 2012 5:50 PM
(111848)
Why would you sell up and go back, giving up the beaches the sunshine and the Aussie lifestyle... surely that is why you came in the first place.
From Mindblower

To KathrynG

05 Feb 2012 6:09 PM
(111849)
If the dollar went to parity and you had equity in your property , would you sell up and go back cashed up ? tempting
From KathrynG

To Mindblower

05 Feb 2012 6:14 PM
(111850)
No, money isn't everything and why did you come here in the first place, for the relaxed lifestyle and the sun and sea... I find the UK quite depressing these days, even family I talk to are depressed... I love my homeland but not enough to live back there...even with loads of cash.
From simonc

To KathrynG

05 Feb 2012 6:38 PM
(111851)
I wouldnt go home for financial reasons. We've been on the fence for a few years plus now for all the right reasons, not the wrong ones. The money might at some point become a tipping factor. I came here for a change and for adventure, the same reason I have been to a number of other countries for long periods, I guess I was bored. It is a pain being that way inclined because uprooting and moving somewhere doesnt get any less unsettling each time. As for the Aussie lifestyle, In the three jobs I have had since getting here I work harder and longer than I ever did in England and I have less time off, and though I get paid more I came here to take life easier. Life in Winchester was considerably more laid back that life in Perth. While I would miss parts of my life here in Oz, to be debt free in either part of England my wife and I come from is really quite an attractive option. They are nice places, filled with good people who we go back a long way with...and now with a little one in tow we would have a huge support network that we dont have here. In the long run, you dont even need to listen to the advice of Oracle Jim, moving back is not a good option as there will be many years of economic woes ahead for the UK if the picture being painted is accurate. Though Jim predicted parity with pound years ago, I was a bit sceptical then, but we are more than half way there. As far as costs go, I just got back from Thailand $2 a beer, 20 cents for kg of bananas and cheap houses, but average pay if probably about 10 bucks a day. Im not justifying the crazy prices in WA but it is relative.
From KathrynG

To simonc

05 Feb 2012 6:49 PM
(111852)
I also guess it depends where you live in Oz. I used to live in Melbourne which is expensive but a wonderful city and a cosmopolitan culture with different races living peacefully alongside each other (how often do you see that in England in a city). Now I live in Launceston in Tasmania, it is obviously cheaper here, we still have hot weather (averaging 25- 30 degrees during the summer months) and we are only 50 mins flight time from Melbourne (cheap flights anything from $25 each way to $45 each way). All my family are in the UK, the five of us came out here alone with no house and no job. This has to be a better place to bring children, but yes I can understand the financial side of it, but the work in the UK is not readily available and the money people used to earn is no longer the same. My hubby left the UK earning forty five thousand pounds a year.... the same position now earns around twenty five thousand pounds a year. Whilst the properties are cheaper, folk have no work to pay for them.. and whilst you and I could in theory go back and buy a property would we have a job to allow us to live comfortably.
From jimboman

To simonc

05 Feb 2012 8:18 PM
(111853)
I spent 6 months working in China with people who earn very little and live in shacks. They were happy though because of their outlook on life and the way they used their spare time (very little spare time but lots of quality). I work stupid long hours here but the reason we moved was not about now or next year. It was about what things would be like 20 years from now for our kids when they want to start their own families. I don't have a crystal ball but if you look at the basics (resouces, economy, politics and population) Australia seems to win hands down. My prediction of the falling value of the pound was based on these basics. I am not an economist or an oracle but sometimes the economists forget the basics by looking too hard at detail.
From simonc

To jimboman

05 Feb 2012 10:40 PM
(111855)
I seriously doubt Australia has any claim to being any more financially astute than its western counterparts whatever the politicians will try to tell you. Even as politicians go, these have got to be some of the dodgiest. It is just a lot luckier in terms of resources and Chinas demand for them. UK, US etc were patting themselves on the back for creating wealth out of effectively nothing, now that nothing has been realised as debt. Pull the Chinese pin out and Australias economy will fall in much the same hole as the rest of them for a period,but at the end of the day they will be sat on those resources, while much of the rest of the west will be trying to figure out how to reinvent their trade and rebuild an economy.
From fairylights

To simonc

08 Feb 2012 1:07 AM
(111859)
Africa and South America have resources too - just too dangerous to extract them - how long before Aus is soooo expensive that safety becomes a much less relevant issue for the global mining giants?
From aussiemac

To simonc

08 Feb 2012 3:45 PM
(111860)
I agree, but while we sit on the resources unemplyment will skyrocket, retailers will be going bust by the dozen and Australia has no manufacturing capacity, so we will be no better off than any other western country...and in the backend of nowhere!
From dapper

To simonc

08 Feb 2012 4:22 PM
(111861)
Out of curiosity. What is your indecisiveness regarding returning to the UK after 5 years?
From simonc

To dapper

08 Feb 2012 4:59 PM
(111862)
We miss what we had in the UK, family, friends, the sense of humour, the depth of character and quirkiness, the history, the countryside, and on and on. We didnt leave because we hated England, quite the opposite, we had a really good life there, but it was almost too cosy and boring and we fancied a change. It has been an adventure and my head says stay in Oz for a truckload of good reasons, my heart simply says go home, it has been that way since the day we arrived in Perth. I thought it was a homesick thing, which it was to some extent at first, so we gave it a couple of years, and a couple more now another one. In the meantime we have become parents and we are acutely aware of the huge extended family circle our little girl will never know should we stay. I would rather it wasnt this way because there are so many good things about Oz, but we don't love it and we cant really seeing myself getting old here, so there is a good chance we will leave, as the bumper stickers like to tell us to. Great post here: http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/moving-back-uk/138287-been-back-old-blighty-nearly-6-months-now.html
From cindy42

To simonc

08 Feb 2012 11:18 PM
(111863)
great post. get yourselves home and be with your loved ones. x
From Norm+Yvonne

To simonc

13 Feb 2012 11:17 AM
(111875)
......... it would be interesting to know your truckload of positive reasons to stay here Cheers Y&N
From simonc

To Norm+Yvonne

13 Feb 2012 12:24 PM
(111876)
Healthy outdoor lifestyle, healthy economic environment, great work prospects, much better off financially, open space, light, blue skies, though it gets way too hot in summer, 5 minutes to the beach, warm water, boats, water skiing, the SW, iced coffee, Sushi, SE Asian food and a few very good friends....I would say surfing, but surf is actually considerably better in the UK than in Perth, unless you drive 3 hours. I would have thought that these reasons generally are the same for most people?
From kildrummy

To simonc

14 Feb 2012 9:54 PM
(111887)
That post has really got me thinking. Mainly because i had a very healthy outdoor lifestyle in Scotland, equally good economic environment and work prospects, equally well off but with everthing much much cheaper. I have lived here in Perth almost four years, have never been on a boat, gone to the beach exactly once and only ever go swimming in my pool about 5 times a year. Everything else i could get at home. I would say we are all perfectly happy living in Perth but now i am wondering what it is that keeps us here. Its definately very laid back which drove me nearly insane when we first got here, but now i have adjusted accordingly i much prefer the pace of life. Like most people i'm over the summer, golf in the sun is great but 40+ is a real endurance. The other nine months are just wonderful. I wonder if i could go back to playing golf in the cold and rain, and not at all in the winter. Maybe not. A few more years and cashing up and returning may well become a tempting consideration but by then the kids wont want to leave. Not sure that might not already be the case. Going back for a six week visit soon so perhaps i will have a clearer view after that. Will it all come down to the weather i never really thought the weather was important before i came here. It never kept me indoors or stopped me doing anything but i'm now convinced that it does have an effect on peoples disposition. Well mine certainly. But surely it can not all be down to something as trivial as sunshine. Well that is obviously true bearing in mind whats happening in Greece, Spain Italy et al. I think here its just the icing on the cake because everthing else is ok.
From simonc

To kildrummy

14 Feb 2012 10:22 PM
(111888)
Swings and roundabouts much of it. We are back for a month mid year too, it has been a while so that might help put a bit more clarity to things for us. On the other hand, Ill probably end up more confused!