Archived Discussion Topic

Don't bother with St Stephens school       started by kiwifreed on 19 Jul 2006   (8688)
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From kiwifreed

19 Jul 2006 8:08 PM
(36269)
Just a comment to say that even though various sites and literature suggest that you can get your child into a reasonably priced private school that this is not necessarily the case. We have had no luck getting our child into St Stephens school in Duncraig which is one of the lower price range schools. The person we saw at the school said that they had just had someone put a name down for their child who was 6 hours old!!!Hardly fair to migrants really. We had not intended to try and send our children to anything other than a state school but we have not been very impressed with the quality of education in the state school system so far and there is no opportunity to go to a school with any sort of religious content without it being in the private system (unlike the UK). It is worth doing some groundwork before coming and not just assuming that because everything says that Australian schools are good that they are. There don't seem to be any sensible statistics available at the primary level (unlike UK schools) to make any sort of decision about whether a school is good or not. It seems to be a bit of a lottery really and has made us think carefully about the long term future of staying here.
From rodandally

To kiwifreed

19 Jul 2006 9:56 PM
(36273)
Hi Did you try St Stephens up at Carramar we have enrolled both our kids they are only (4 and 3) so have a while to wait but they did not sound as negative as Duncraig. Just an option for you! There is also lots of new Schools being built NOR and at least all the kids are in similar positions - new - we are building up in Tapping and I know they are just building a primary school behind St Stephens - also Carramar Primary is very good so I believe. Hope that helps Alison xxx
From kiwifreed

To rodandally

19 Jul 2006 11:52 PM
(36277)
Thanks for the reply. Yes they did say that the 4 year old might be able to get in at Duncraig for high school (only 2012). The 7 year old has no chance until high school at Carramar and even then only a slim one. Not really a great result and we feel there are no other options. The 7 year old seems to have gone backwards in maths and english since coming here and I can only imagine that she will slip further behind the longer she is in the state system. Quite depressing really. Thanks for your thoughts.
From DinkyDi

To kiwifreed

20 Jul 2006 12:34 AM
(36280)
We initially found the teaching of writing and arithmetic abysmal here at primary level. They pick up the pace from year 2 and I gather (but have no direct experience of this) that the gap closes thereafter. However, my own opinion is they let a lot of kids down - there are a lot of kids in remedial reading programs or reading at a much lower level than they are capabable of - we have taught our own kids to read because of our concerns (I can recommend the RSA-Distar Teach your child to read in 100 lessons book). In all other respects I think the schools are excellent - really good science, arts, music, sports, lots of day trips, etc.
From kiwifreed

To DinkyDi

20 Jul 2006 11:05 AM
(36308)
DinkyDi Thanks for that. My older child could read fluently before she came but it is just so sad to see her basic grammar, spelling and confidence falling apart. On the maths side she seems to forgotten everything and I am just worried that my frustration with it all is rubbing off on her. I feel that I have let her down coming here. As for work books and teaching her myself, I have found that it just doesn't work as she won't do it for me. I guess a tutor might help or even some sort of group workshop. We are worried that if we have to return to the UK that she is just going to be so behind. How old are your children?
From Marshy

To kiwifreed

20 Jul 2006 11:28 AM
(36309)
My older daughter is 8 and could also read fluently when we arrived 12 months ago. She has come on in leaps and bounds since arriving here and I have nothing but praise for her school (Marrmion Primary). She has become more confident, sporty and her handwriting, spelling and maths has improved ten fold. When we arrived she was joining up her writing and as a result was spending so much time concentrating on joining up that she spent hardly any time on punctuation and spelling. Since 'unjoining' her writing is WAY neater and her spelling is WAY more accurate. She also has a scripture teacher come in once a week. I don't know how long you have been here but it takes a good few months to settle into the different system. On the subject of being behind, kids adapt. We moved from Canada to UK when my daughter was 6. As they start later in Canada she arrived half way through year 1 and had never been to full time school compared to the rest of the class who had done reception year and half of year 1. Within 3 months she was on a par with the others in her class. There will always be people who don't like the education their children are getting here but for me it works like a dream. Try to stop comparing to England and you may relax a little and you may find that your child does too.
From kiwifreed

To Marshy

20 Jul 2006 12:35 PM
(36310)
Marshy Thanks for your comments. I guess you just got lucky with your school. That is probably my issue, that it should be better than just 'getting lucky' with a school.
From Marshy

To kiwifreed

20 Jul 2006 3:25 PM
(36311)
I don't think its about getting lucky. I know lots of people whose kids go to school in Duncraig, Hillarys, Carramar, Sorrento and North Beach who are more than happy with the schooling. You just have to understand its different. You will just make yourself miserable if you don't.
From Bex_and_Al

To kiwifreed

20 Jul 2006 5:48 PM
(36315)
Hi there I know what you meant although I don't have any kids yet. I guess we will start a family when we are settled in Oz....I am also quite concern with the education system in Oz because I don't have any friends or family there to ask. Maybe worth spending a day in some schools (if they allow you...) to check out how their students behaviours or their levels. Can't you find any statistics of schools in Perth? I wonder why they don't have a system to help parents and children. Is it common to send children to private schools in Oz? If so, how much is it per year? Good luck. Don't put too much pressure on yourselves.
From Marshy

To Marshy

20 Jul 2006 7:31 PM
(36321)
So Kiwifreed you send me a private message telling me to keep my comments to myself because they are not nice and not nderstanding but block me from replying privately. Get a grip, my post was not meant to be offensive just the 'other side of the story' Your post pretty much told everyone that you didn't rate the education here in Perth, I was presenting the fact that lots of people get on just fine with the education here. Its only fair to the other members of this site to see that there are people who think the education provided at primary level is good but very different to England. My apologies if my contradictory comments upset you, they were not intended to be anything other than informative to you and other users.
From kiwifreed

To Marshy

20 Jul 2006 8:15 PM
(36327)
For the record I didn't say 'keep your comments to yourself'. I agree that people should see the whole picture. What I actually said word for word was that 'I don't think your comments were particularly nice or understanding'. This was a personal message and not relevant to the discussion point. Not everyone is perhaps as fortunate as you to live where you do and forgive me but I believe that everyone is able to post their messages freely here. I was merely relaying my experiences so far and that is just as valid as any comments you make.I have lived in Australia before and have also travelled around the world a bit like you, so I did feel that I could comment with some objectivity.I am not happpy with things at the school my child attends (which I have sensibly not named) although you have more than 'set the record straight' I believe with your mention of the various schools that your friends attend. This should provide people who choose to read this with more than enough balanced information for them to make their own decisions. I would be grateful for no further discussion on this point.
From Marshy

To kiwifreed

20 Jul 2006 9:04 PM
(36336)
Sorry just had to comment. I can't see what was not nice or not understanding about either of my first 2 posts. I was stating it as I see it and how a lot of my friends see it. You were stating it as you see it. Both views are totally subjective. Both sides of the coin from where I am sitting. As for where I live, thats totally irelevant and I don't see how I am any luckier than anyone else.
From emmabutcheruk

To Marshy

20 Jul 2006 10:18 PM
(36344)
Ok, just about to stir up a hornets nest but am I wrong in assuming that Parents have the choice as to where to send their children to school? I can't remember who was happy and mad with the schools they have chosen but if you are not happy with the education your child is receiving address that matter with the school in question. Equally children take a while to adapt to new situations as someone else has already mentioned. Ultimately if you get no joy or comfort from what the school is telling you, change schools. ( a little simplistic maybe but none the less still true. ) Also parents have to take some responsibility for the education of their children. I get fed up in the UK with teachers and the education system always being the reason why children do some things and can't do others! Not shouting or having a go at anyone in particular, just stating my feelings on the matter.
From Marshy

To emmabutcheruk

20 Jul 2006 10:47 PM
(36347)
Yes you can apply to any school you like. If you are in catchment they have to take you, if you are out of catchment they can turn you down. I am happy with the education here, I feel my child is a more rounded individual rather than the sad 7 year old sitting her SATS back in England.
From llowe

To Marshy

21 Jul 2006 10:14 AM
(36388)
Hi all, I have been here over 18 months now and have been researching on schools here before we came. I have also worked in the Education dept in both the Uk and WA, and I hope to draw to your attention some of the issues you will be facing in real life in Oz. 1) One of the few things I noticed in 'Education' is that the more 'leafy' the suburbs are, the better the schools.. that's seems to be to be fairly universal. So if you want to be in a good school, you need to be in a good suburb. 2) Comparative standards.. I'm afraid that the UK average is higher than Oz, their secondary education is quite sad.. it naturally follows that the 'TEE' students at the end of their secondary education may not get into the Unis in the UK. You can also say that 'TEE' level is a lower in comparison to 'A' level. 3) Chances.. yes you are taking a chance if you unplug in UK from a very good school to say an average school here, then you are likely to be disappointed. There are many 'underperforming' schools in Perth (I found this 'unofficially' out now that I work in a Uni in Perth), that why the latest drive to the 'OBE'(Outcome Based Education) systems. However, it's not doom and gloom!! I can afford to spend time educating my girl who is attending Rossmoyne SHS which is one of the best state school in Perth if not WA, but make no mistakes about their standards.. they are only at the 75% quintile of UK secondary schools. I really really need to put extra hours for her to move on.. And indeed, the parents here spends umpteem amount of 'tuition fees' to get their kids to a good level. So beware of the choices you make..in this migration malacky.. are they for you, your kids or are they an all rounded decisions so that the whole family benefit.. Recently, there was a post called 'Perth is hell on earth' and I know where this couple is coming from.. They can see at the early stages(2 months roughly) that Oz is not for them and went home!! So folks as much as you think Oz is better, think better only if it benefit your dear family wholistically, not just an aspect, like weather or the sea.. they are nice but you will soon take that for granted!! Hope that help in some ways putting the record straight, and that means 'talking straight' and if this helps you, good... or offended you, then tough!! At least, I have imparted some knowledge as to how you may want to play this game!! Whilst, the 'pie' is still warm and just out of the oven... go home should you feel necessary if Perth is not for you. That in itself is great courage!! Stay kool and good luck... Regards LIAM
From Marshy

To llowe

21 Jul 2006 11:01 AM
(36389)
Excellent post Liam.
From Bex_and_Al

To llowe

21 Jul 2006 1:46 PM
(36392)
Hi Liam Thanks for the post regarding the education system in Oz. I have some questions and wonder if you can answer them.........I know that UK education in general is higher than OZ and their secondary education is not as good as some of the UK state school. I personally went to a very top primary / secondary schools, college and university back in UK and would obviously want my (future) children to have the same. Say if my children completed their secondary education in Oz but they don't want to attend university in Oz.......can they get into university in UK with their TEE results?! Or is it harder for them than an average A-levels student back in UK? Ahhh, obviously everyone wants the best for the children so please respect others views. Kiwifreed is only stated how she is feeling/views and looking for some directions or help. I would do the same.
From Bex_and_Al

To llowe

21 Jul 2006 1:48 PM
(36393)
oops, I've left out...... Many thanks in advance Liam!
From llowe

To Bex_and_Al

21 Jul 2006 2:14 PM
(36394)
Hi Bex, Well, 'TEE' comes in many grades/forms and hearing it from the secondary kids here, even the Ozzies themselves seemed woolly about it!! However, it's a recognised grading, certainly in Oz, however many Unis in the UK viewed it as equivalent to the 'AS' level, so to answer your question it may deem as having to redo your current 'A2' to get into most Unis in the UK. If your marks are very high, ie in the 98% and above, things might be different. Some UK Unis might make an exception to the rule. I can't personally say but my 20 yo girl have spoken to many of her pommy mates... there have been quite a few disappointed 'TEE' kids wanting to get to the Unis in the UK. The best thing to do is to find out from different Unis.. mainly because they have different rules. One thing for sure, there is a very little chance of getting into Oxbrigde or Imperial, or Kings or Edinburgh ie the top colleges.. or popular courses like Medicine etc.. in the UK. However, if you try hard enough, recently converted 'Unis from Polys' might accept you due to the money factor, not enough enrolments etc.. but you still need to establish 'A2' equivalent as a normal standard enrty to UK Unis. I know where you/kiwifreed are coming from about doing the best for our kids, cos I am facing the same dilemma!! To that end my views are that most teachers everywhere serve their schools diligently but it's the rest of the time when parent have their kids and the misconception that teachers are solely responsible for their kids education... erh.. wrong!! When our kids are home, we teach them.. so the recent reports about teachers getting abuse from parents... phew.. some parent they are way out of line!! You can still get the kids to take the 'A' levels exams here, I believe! So don't dispair yet and the TAFE courses, I heard also share equivalent with 'A' level!! All I can say is think outside the box.. there is always an answer!! Hope that helps.. apologies if I told it as it is... harsh truth sometimes sound bad.. Regards LIAM.
From mikesarah

To llowe

21 Jul 2006 4:46 PM
(36400)
Hi all, I just wanted to ask a question in relation to this thread. We are coming over in Sept and the same as most parents we are anxious of choosing the 'right' school. In the UK where we live we are aware of the 'best' schools both private and public by reputation and so my question is; What are the 'best schools' by reputation, both public and private in Perth -particularly NOR. On private schools we have seen school fees that range from $1500 -$10,000! per year so do you get what you pay for - are the most expensive, like Hale etc the best or at the lower price end St Marks etc still good? Thanks in advance Mike & Sarah
From Ushas

To mikesarah

21 Jul 2006 6:11 PM
(36405)
Sorry but I have to jump in here... The 'good' schools are only recognised as 'good' schools because of the standards of the students within the school. These 'good' schools have 'good' students in general and lessof the 'learning difficulty' type child. Parents see these as 'good' schools and therefore the 'good' children are sent to them. The lower performing schools have more children who find education a challenge. Rating a school is only a rating of the results that children perform at, not the quality of the teaching. As Liam said, there arevthe schoolsknown here as 'Leafy Greens'. These tend to be the schools in higher socio-economic areas. And yes...surprise, surprise...they usually have higher performing students, more involved parents and greater respect for learning. It's the nature of 'middle class' life. Those schools in lower socio-economic areas have tough kids,many of whom find living day today more of a priority than learning. So when choosing a school...choose a newer, leafy green area if that is the kind of school you want. But do NOT discount the level of dedication or professionalism of the teachers in the other schools. Student results do NOT reflect teaching standards. They represent the percentage of 'high achieving' students. The reason Rossmoyne is one of the highest performing schools is purely because it got a reputation for doing well. Therefore people have actually moved to the area to get there children in there, where parents expect the best. Rossmoyne High has an extremely high percentage of Asian background students because Asian parents (generally speaking) place a VERY high importance on education and academic achievement. It's not well known for advancing a lot of low achieving students. Because it doesn't have them in general. And as for the schooling here being lesser then the UK... Having taught in both... The majority of children arriving from the UK are quite a bit behind the general class level. However, there are also talented children who have come over and these children (as with any gifted and talented child) are taught according to their ability. I have taught extremely bright childrenin the UK, but at the same time most of the children I teach now would quite easily do just as well in the SATs. But then I teach in a leafy green area! But enough from me... Ushas
From Kieren

To Ushas

21 Jul 2006 6:14 PM
(36407)
Hear, hear, Ush! Well said!! KIEREN tick from me...
From Kieren

To Kieren

21 Jul 2006 6:54 PM
(36414)
Bit off topic here, but: I went to a 'state' secondry school in the UK that I would never now dream of sending my daughter too. My younger brother on the other hand, went private, having (I think!) won a scholarship, with my Mom and stepfather paying for, for some years after. We are now both in quite equally senior roles in two very different jobs, and I believe that the schooling is only as good as the childs ability. I would never have coped with the 'more extreme' work that he went through. I'm quite happy to admit (and some on here would agree!), that I'm not the brightest of sparks - to any degree - and personally feel that too much education, or forcing of education on a child (of any age), can cause as many problems. For example, I've had a cousin or two who have been to very good schools, colleges, and then uni's, who have been classed as 'over qualified' when finished, and now actually struggle to get work. One of them with so many degrees and qualifications that he could, for a while, only get a job stacking shelves at a well known supermarket. Providing the schools records and teaching ability is satisfactory and realistic to the PARENT - and of course, the key factor that is forever overlooked, that of the parents actually taking an interest in the childs work and helping where neccessary, not JUST relying on the teachers - then there shouldn't be a problem. There is absolutely nothing to say that just because you are 'paying' for a childs education (private), that he/she will recieve a better education. Its just another urban myth that keeps those who still believe in it, that they are getting a superior level of teaching. Its definately not always the case, and only causes more pressure in their childs lives to succeed and out perform the next kid. Lets make the rat race even harder for them, eh? As if they dont get enough crap when they actually finish schooling! We all want the best for our kids, but remember they are only kids, and they need a quality of life too. This is not intended as a dig to anyone who STILL wishes to send their kids to private schools, just my view on things. KIEREN
From wheels

To Kieren

21 Jul 2006 9:32 PM
(36420)
Well said Kieren & I also agree with Ushas! I have 2 school age children (and a terrible toddler), the eldest is 11 and has aspergers syndrome but is academically bright, the younger one however is almost 9 and really struggles at school simply because he's not bothered about learning, so when we get there in 5 weeks our priority is to find a 'good school' but for us that means one that the kids feel comfortable attending, look forward to going to each day and that hopefully will 'bring out the best in them' without pushing them too far. So if it feels right then we shall be following our instincts! I left school with very good grades simply because I enjoyed my time there and wanted to work hard but it never got me anywhere on the career ladder as I never had any self confidence to go with the grades. Michele
From llowe

To mikesarah

21 Jul 2006 9:33 PM
(36421)
Hi there, Well, you've ask for it and this is my analysis of their published results(top 30 schools). As you can see they are mostly.. you've guessed it, in the leafy suburbs, and by the way I don't wished to discuss how I arrived at this. All I can say is that I invented some rules on their published results, wahlah, it magically appear on the screen. They are not the guide nor are they definative.. cos it must be understood that discipline for eg can't be measured, dedication of teachers, again, can't be measured or even the added value on the education of your kids... that also is difficult to measure. SCHOOL Presbyterian Ladies' College St Mary's Anglican Girls' School Perth College St Hilda's Anglican School For Girls Santa Maria College Methodist Ladies' College Wesley College Penrhos College Rossmoyne Senior High School Hale School Frederick Irwin Anglican School Willetton Senior High School Churchlands Senior High School Christ Church Grammar School Mercedes College St Stephen's School - Duncraig John Curtin College of the Arts All Saints' College Winthrop Baptist College St Mark's Anglican Community School Thornlie Christian College John XXIII College Applecross Senior High School Iona Presentation College Aquinas College Trinity College Shenton College Hampton Senior High School Lake Joondalup Baptist College Kalamunda Senior High School so hope that helps.. This is by no means degrading areas with schools that have served the communities very well by adding value to their education. So please folks, if your school does not appear, it doesn't mean that they are crappy or failing (there is no such thing as failing schools). Regards LIAM.
From Ushas

To llowe

22 Jul 2006 8:55 AM
(36453)
22 of them are also private! What a surprise! So the top schools are those where 'the money is' and therefore generally speaking there is a greater emphasis on education within the home! An interesting analysis there. Thanks Liam Ush
From llowe

To Ushas

22 Jul 2006 10:11 AM
(36454)
Hi Ush and all you good folks, Yep, me luv, sadly speaking, money, to some extend does contribute to the educational success. It saddens me that education is slowly becoming a priviledge rather than a right!! In Portsmouth(was then the top 10 most deprive city in Europe), where I used to work in education, I used GIS systems to plot geographically where the failing communities(in term of social-econo. measure) were, you guessed it, and the number of challenged schools were also located there. Broadly speaking as communities become richer(wealth), the schools' results apparently becomes better.. that poses my next question, does that mean that as a system, we may also have failed kids just because they are in a less wealthy community? How does that applies to education in Perth? We now know that the wealth generated in WA in the last 3-5 years is huge, if not, gi'nomous. The cost of living is affected on an upwardly scale ie getting really expensive to live here!! The salary is not going up as fast, so where inflation is catching up faster than you can fill your wallet, it will affect more and more people on the poverty line.... but not so much if you are wealthy enough to sustain such inflationary onslaught. Next question, the divide between the rich and the poor tend to extend(exploitation theory disguised as market forces..lol..eg look at petrol prices) in such econo. climate so what was considered as a marginal community, are now poorer(social econo. indicators are disposable incomes, number of cars etc)... you guessed it, the kids will suffer(in emotional terms cos 2 parents need to work round the clock) hence schools will tend to be affected. That's why, I believe, the report about how teachers are abused and bullied by parents recently.. it really is neither entities fault when the real fault lies somewhere between ourselves and the governmental systems that ruled us!! It's like an action replay in the late 90's in Portsmouth(maybe the whole UK) measuring our success in 'wealth', leading to multi-systems failing and schools became very very challenged!! That can happen here if as a 'CITY' we measure our success in terms of 'WEALTH'. I have come from a social care background therefore I say this, if 'wealth' only benefits a small segments of our society, the culminating effect is that the disadvantaged portioned will tend to arise in some form of a revolution to address the balance, simply because they wanna survive... and I can see emerging symptoms here, and I say this sadly... cos I'd really like Perth!! THAT's why I said schools does not 'FAILED', it is the community it serves that's is disintegrating. So, it's not doom and gloom, since we all know, as parent knows how valuable education is. The things we really need to do is to be there for our kids.. their well being, their rights to a fulfilled knowledge curve(not just getting degrees)... etc. For all those planning to come here, considered seriously in your migration package that you have enough resources to do this cos Perth is not cheap!! And although 'wealth' is not everything, you do need this lesser evil to survive!! Sorry Ush, don't mean to lecture... me luv.. regards to your big man..lol.. just felt passionate about education vs society Regards LIAM.
From Shari3

To llowe

22 Jul 2006 6:45 PM
(36471)
Liam, great post, really fascinating to read. So I wonder if that means Perth is showing signs of becoming a more classed society like Britain? I know Australia usually prides itself on being relatively classless. Is the influx of Brits (both wealth and culture) having anything to do with this? And in terms of seeing how it's affecting society among the have-nots, do you mean that there is more crime, disaffected youth, less harmony, etc? I was also interested to read in your earlier post that Aussie students wouldn't necessarily get into UK unis as it is felt the education isn't equivalent. I had no idea of that, and it's something I will look into when we arrive, because I wouldn't want my children to have their options cut off like that. Saying that, I also agree strongly with Michele's post about a school being a good school if it brings out the best in your child across all areas, not just academic excellence. I went to a country school in NSW which my mum taught maths at, and she always said it was just as good as the city schools, but I do believe that it wasn't. We weren't taught grammar and to this day I still don't know all the rules - even though I am a writer and editor by trade! - and when I got to uni I failed my first year (partly because I was finally out of a tiny hick town and partied too much, but also because it took me a little while to catch up with my research skills and essay construction. But by the 2nd year of uni I was achieving high distinctions across all my subjects, so what I would say to people who are worried, even if you think that you're children are falling behind, if they are interested and have ability, then I think they will do fine in whatever they choose to do. Shari
From Ushas

To llowe

23 Jul 2006 9:22 AM
(36519)
I guess you need to look up the socio-economic make-up of various areas to see what's going on. It's not a lack of money that is to blame for a lesser education or poorly performing school. It's the parental background. A child who lives in Gosnells and has a parent who works with them to get the best out of them will perform a lot better than the majority of children in that school. However, the community is also made up of a high percentage of Aboriginal families, who culturally and historically, do not generally place any value on education. Thus a high amount of truancy and poor results. It also has quite a high volume of single parents who are worn out just trying to make ends meet or are poorly educated themselves and don't necessarily see the value in education. So child A will likely do well regardless of where they attend, while child B and C probably won't regardless of where they go or the teachers they encounter. Although saying that you probably wouldn't find children ofparents like B and C in the private system at all because they wouldn't have the means to do that or the inclination since they don't value education so highly. Anyway... Haven't had a good debate for ages!! Ush
From llowe

To Shari3

23 Jul 2006 10:24 AM
(36524)
Thnaks esquirette.., Well, according to my neighbour, Oz has never been a classless society. It has always been simpler in its classifications ie wealthy and the poor. Possibily, due to their 'convict' history.. This is now complicated by the influx of migrates from a more complex class society so it can't 'not change'!! I am refering to not just the pommies, but Indians, Chinese, Japs etc who also have a complex web of classification in their society. So upto about the early 70s' you can still see this simpler Ozzy class pattern. When wealth arrived in the 80's in term of selling our resources(to Japan, US, then China etc), things change dramatically and a more complex classification takes place. From now on this is my theory and I could jolly well be wrong. In an affluent society, the richer you are, the more able you are to provide 'material wealth' to your family. It follows that this habit(wealth provision) makes you think/feel that you are better than the person next to you(snob value) cos you've got more money and with money you can afford to buy other 'better' wants etc. You then feel that you need to buy into the best neighbourhood etc. All of this is an illusion to me....lol.. cos for argument sake a calamity were to hit Perth tomorrow(God forbid), like an earthquake or a tsunami, or even more realistically an economic shakeup like the bubble burst in resources then we will all be equal... equal in that we will be strip naked of our possessions. Sorry I diverted.. Back to your point, yes, the poms(50% of Perth is Pom origins) has contributed to this 'more classed society like Britain' but the economy boom has made it even worst with quick, and to some extend, 'dirty' wealth from our resoucres gain. Well, aptly speaking it does follow your comments on 'more crime, disaffected youth, less harmony, etc'. Take an example, look at Britain as an indicator and now wear the hat of a youngster 18 yo, just out of school, got a job(poorly paid) but can't be independent cos they can't earn enough to get a 'sustainable' mortgage. At that age the future looks bleak to them, so most but not all, vent their fustration on other venues.. like drugs and alcohol(lethal combinations) etc. and I now become aware that they are a very common theme in Perth. You can't have youth who sees no future in the society they lived in, to study, work and play hard? Exploitation theory comes to mind!! Again this is my theory so please read this with due care and attention.. Although, I now hear a distant chant, yeahhh, 'but crime in Perth is 1 in 8 minutes... compared to London 1 in 30 secs'!! Ok, let me expalain this stats cos I fell into the same ignorant trap in that thinking too. When I worked on the systems with Hants Police, I discover that you can't compare crime stats.. of Andover(rural) with say Southampton(city). This is due to the fact that it take longer to commit a crime due to sparsity of the population... in rural areas. So we used an adjusted stats to do the comparison ie per house hold per metre square. In simple terms, you need to condense the population density of a rural area to that of a city before you can make a reasonable comparison.. so I wonder what the adjusted figures are if this crime rate is compared on a like to like basis? 'TEE'? Like I said, different Unis in the UK view it differently. The same grade that gets you into UWA may not get you into Kings, Imperial and certainly forget about Oxbridge. It may, however, gets you into the 'recently converted Polys to Unis' colleges. I stressed from my 20 yo's research(just finished her A2 last year), it was very difficult for her mates to get in straight from school(TEE results only) to Unis in the UK... but this is not doom and gloom.. just add TAFE or better still take their A2 exams here. I hope this helps you.. but strictly speaking these are my views and observations... and to some degree, lessons learned from other posters and my own mistakes. However, I'm staying in Perth cos, warts and all, if you can find a permanent job and facilitates a continous cash flow in livng expenses.. then Perth is like any other city with a great deal of social problems on its own.. is a reasonably good place to live!! Regards LIAM.
From llowe

To Ushas

23 Jul 2006 10:56 AM
(36526)
Hi Ush, What you've said is very very true!! This is excellent advice to parent who felt disappointed with their schools vs their kids performance... SPEND time with your kids education(sorry needed to get this out)!! It is also very true that throwing money at your kids to enhance performance is a short term measure but unfortunately this is how the schools' performance are measured. Not growing up with children, as parent, induces long time emotional problems in the said child and that I can quote upteems from our Ed. Psycho. analysis from our Pupil Services team... Good one Ush!! I, too, abhor such OBE practice, however, short of a better process of measurements that is more transparent, I'm afraid the Liliana will go that route that WE are using back in the UK! Regards LIAM.
From mattthebutcher

To llowe

24 Jul 2006 5:12 AM
(36554)
Liam, i have to say that most of your posts are long!! however, i have to say that they are all excellently written, from the heart, informative, eloquent and also they make me think deeper, i am pleased aussiemove have peeps like you, ushas, kieren etc keep posting, and im glad you seem to be over your IR stress matt
From jimboman

To mattthebutcher

24 Jul 2006 6:03 AM
(36555)
1
From mattthebutcher

To jimboman

24 Jul 2006 6:11 AM
(36557)
thanks jimboman, very valid point from a different point of view, as you can see from this post, there are many ideas and opinions, from many different views and perspectives no one is right or wrong, just all have a different handle on the situation still its good to hear of an immigrants opinion 30 years down the line as this is where most of hope to be in 30 years!?!?! matt
From Renie

To kiwifreed

29 Jul 2006 6:47 PM
(36915)
Wow, just read through this massive thread. Lots of very differing opinions on schooling. Don't stop trying to get your kids into the schools that you want. Make sure your name is put on the waiting list. From experience, the turnover rate of students in Aussie schools is huge and you can have up to five new kids in a class per year. So don't lose hope yet. I think that whether you choose a private or state school you still have to ensure you check out the quality of education in the school. Ask to look around the school (assuming you have already arrived). Most Principals or teachers don't have a problem with that. I have worked in the private system for 10 years and prior to that taught in the UK. I do think the standards are different but then so is the lifestyle. What is perceived as important in the UK isn't necessarily as important here. I personally enjoy teaching in Australia with outcomes based education (Very holistic and integrated). I agree OBE starts to get tricky in high school but it does work in primary. However, every teacher is different and has a different teaching style. There are still many traditional teachers out there and also many alternative teachers. You just have to find what suits your child. Sometimes what suits the parent isn't necessarily what will work for the child. Anyway, I'm rambling now, my point is ask to look around and don't be afraid to ask about standards and expectations especially of behaviour. Good discipline means more time for good academics and don't give up on the schools you want. Make sure your child's name stays on the waiting list. Good luck!
From kangaroojack

To Bex_and_Al

30 Jul 2006 8:56 AM
(36968)
Your post made me laugh: 'I personally went to a very top primary' Bit of a reality check here, if and when you do have children ( i hope you can ) then any university that they may or may not attend, will be 20 or so years in the future, so who's to say what kind of state the UK or Australian education system will be in then. I think you should relax and not worry about the education for the children you don't have yet. Worry about it when the time comes!
From Bex_and_Al

To kangaroojack

30 Jul 2006 10:01 PM
(36999)
Yes, you
From Bex_and_Al

To kangaroojack

31 Jul 2006 8:59 PM
(37065)
Hey Thanks for the reply. I'm sorry too for biting your head off. I've always like to know about the place I'm moving into (country in this case), not just everyday issues but the history, social issues, ranking....etc. Anyway, good luck to you.